FatFreek 2005

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Posts by FatFreek 2005

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  12

  Nearly 500 migrant children taken from parents -- that's nothing compared to JW disfellowshipping

  by FatFreek 2005 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  several months ago the news was intense about the hundreds of families broken apart by u.s. immigration.

  many children were sometimes separated by their parents, sometimes for weeks at a time.

  "still separated: nearly 500 migrant children taken from their parents remain in u.s. custody” aug 31, washington post.

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  FatFreek 2005

  So true, Finkelstein. Suicides are too often a forgotten casualty of disfellowshipping, or should I say the punitive consequences of disfellowshipping.
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  12

  Nearly 500 migrant children taken from parents -- that's nothing compared to JW disfellowshipping

  by FatFreek 2005 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  several months ago the news was intense about the hundreds of families broken apart by u.s. immigration.

  many children were sometimes separated by their parents, sometimes for weeks at a time.

  "still separated: nearly 500 migrant children taken from their parents remain in u.s. custody” aug 31, washington post.

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  FatFreek 2005

  You are very fair and kind, Finkelstein. Based on your comment, however, I decided to do a compilation I've been thinking of for a long time. Based on WT numbers, how many have been DFd over the years?

  Thanks to JWfacts and Paul Grundy's table, "Worldwide Watchtower Statistics", I used his figures from 1962 through 2015. I assumed "Average Publishers" is what WT uses for their 1% estimate of DF people.
  

  I then built a simple spreadsheet covering 54 years beginning with 1962 and its average publishers of 920,920 through 2015 with its average publishers of 7,987,279.
  

  Using this data, the result we're looking for tallies to more than 2,000,000. Again, that's an estimate based upon 1% of each year's average publishers. Keep in mind that we're ignoring, for lack of data, the years before 1962 beginning with 1952 when Watchtower disfellowshipping actually began. We're also ignoring the years 2016, 2017, and this year, 2018.
  

  While the calculated number is 2,126,017 I feel more comfortable using the "more than 2,000,000 number".
  
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  12

  Nearly 500 migrant children taken from parents -- that's nothing compared to JW disfellowshipping

  by FatFreek 2005 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  several months ago the news was intense about the hundreds of families broken apart by u.s. immigration.

  many children were sometimes separated by their parents, sometimes for weeks at a time.

  "still separated: nearly 500 migrant children taken from their parents remain in u.s. custody” aug 31, washington post.

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  FatFreek 2005

  There sometimes isn't any way to revoke your membership without risking some tension with family (depending on the local congregation and family concerned).

  Disfellowshipping, by current Watchtower rules, involves far more than "some tension". Some tension is a huge understatement.

  There may be a few exceptions. But in my case 41 years ago in 1977 when I proudly took my stand, made my exit, my two boys decided to remain with their mother. Not a problem -- then. We continued for a few years to spend precious father/son time together, nothing spiritual, of course. Go to the beach, take certain trips, discuss school problems, etc.

  Early 1980s the society changed their rules. Had I known about those new rules, which then prohibited family association, I'd have probably taken a different route to exit when I did in 1977, now known as fading. Four years too late.

  The disfellowshipping has never been the problem which, in turn, separates families. It's the punitive measure that goes along with it. The remaining family members are held hostage with the threat of being disfellowshipped themselves -- or keep their forbidden relationships secret, always looking over their shoulders for fear of reprisal.
  
  
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  12

  Nearly 500 migrant children taken from parents -- that's nothing compared to JW disfellowshipping

  by FatFreek 2005 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  several months ago the news was intense about the hundreds of families broken apart by u.s. immigration.

  many children were sometimes separated by their parents, sometimes for weeks at a time.

  "still separated: nearly 500 migrant children taken from their parents remain in u.s. custody” aug 31, washington post.

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  FatFreek 2005

  Several months ago the news was intense about the hundreds of families broken apart by U.S. immigration. Many children were sometimes separated by their parents, sometimes for weeks at a time.

  "Still separated: Nearly 500 migrant children taken from their parents remain in U.S. custody” Aug 31, Washington Post

  While that was all bad, JW disfellowshipping makes those cases pale in comparison. That many JW families are broken up every 2.3 days, each week, of every month, of every year.

  Think about it -- when a JW is disfellowshipped he or she is separated from his or her family as well. But depending on how the victim handles this emotional blackmail, that DF person would not be reinstated for many months, perhaps a year. In my case -- 41 years and counting since I refuse to be blackmailed.

  According to WT’s own statistics, some one percent of their membership is disfellowshipped annually. And if we believe their membership numbers, that translates into more than 82,000 last year.

  Think about it – In one weeks time, nearly 1,600 disfellowshippings happened during 2017 which means that most of those fracturing rituals at the hands of some judicial committee of 3 men resulting in broken families.
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  16

  We are not prophets, we do not prophesy -Watchtower

  by FatFreek 2005 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  the title says it all.

  is it true?.

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  FatFreek 2005

  I suppose we could say, until it's rescinded, then it remains as current teaching.
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  16

  We are not prophets, we do not prophesy -Watchtower

  by FatFreek 2005 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  the title says it all.

  is it true?.

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  FatFreek 2005

  Excellent article, Ding.

  But would they deny that article today? After all, that was 1972.
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  16

  We are not prophets, we do not prophesy -Watchtower

  by FatFreek 2005 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  the title says it all.

  is it true?.

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  FatFreek 2005

  The title says it all. Is it true?
• 
  51

  They would Stone us if the law would allow

  by ElderEtta in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  several years ago unless i was dreaming i read a watchtower quotation that effectively said that they would execute us as disfellowshipped individuals if the law would allow.. was i dreaming?.

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  FatFreek 2005

  In defense of the OP I was at an apostafest some 3 years ago where this subject drew heated attention. The question was raised as to how old that publication was when it was published. More important, the question was raised as to whether WT had rescinded that teaching. None of us knew the answers.

  However, one of the group, a recent exiting elder told us this: that just before he resigned, a soon-to-be disfellowshipped (use of tobacco) person (gender not important) lamented how he/she was told by the elders that if he/she was living in the days of the Israelites he would be getting stoned to death! The person was understandably taken aback at this statement and justified to him/herself that this elder's statement was the key to refusing to attend a subsequent meeting with the judicial committee. Naturally, that person was disfellowshipped.

  Getting back home from this fest I dug into my WT Lib for this topic. While this all can be considered anecdotal, I found no evidence from WT publications that they've rescinded what they said back in 1952.

  I suppose that can be said of many silly WT teachings of the past. However, the onus is on their back, not ours, to defend teachings they’ve published.

  As to quoting old publications, Watchtower literature has no qualms referring to early Zion's Watch Tower magazines when it suits their purpose, reinforcing whatever it wants to show its readers. . A case in point, among many, is from a recent Watchtower magazine: “One of the reasons why Zion’s Watch Tower was first published in July 1879 was to defend the Bible teaching of the ransom. Its pages provided "food at the proper time," for in the late 1800’s, a growing number of professed Christians began to question how Jesus’ death could be a ransom for our sins.” The Watchtower 2010, 8/15 p. 12 par. 2.

  That Zion’s Watch Tower reference reasonably implies that there is no statute of limitations for "food at the proper time". And it is only one of some 360 references to the older “Zion's Watch Tower” (1879-1908) within its modern literature since 1950.

  [I find it interesting that in an essay I wrote in 2012, the number of WT Library finds to their abbreviation “ZWT” [for Zion’s Watch Tower] was 1,507 instances . Moments ago, however, using my more recent 2013 Library, searching for the term “ZWT” yielded a “not valid” response]
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  51

  They would Stone us if the law would allow

  by ElderEtta in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  several years ago unless i was dreaming i read a watchtower quotation that effectively said that they would execute us as disfellowshipped individuals if the law would allow.. was i dreaming?.

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  FatFreek 2005

  Amen to that, Steve2.
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  20

  Is that a pumpkin in your window, brother?

  by Fatfreek in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  the circuit overseer, henry judson, came up to me during the circuit assembly.

  "brother miller, it's been reported that your family may have a pumpkin in your window.

  " he waited for an answer although he never asked a question.

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  FatFreek 2005

  Thanks, Sparky1. I moved to the midwest after graduating high school in '58 but Mom and Dad kept me posted and many of those names sound familiar.

  
  

  The pic above is my newly baptized and smiling dad, Wesley Miller, Fred Franz among admirers left to right, Bill Silva, Bob Morris, and Frank Gonsalves.

  I understand Bill Silva and wife Veronica went into Circuit work.

  Len Miller